Donna Maree Hanson, Author, Phd in Creative Writing

I started with 167 200 words in Dragon Wine. I’m now below 130 000 words. Wohoo! As a reminder, I had feedback from an editor, the lovely Marco, who had seen Dragon Wine but didn’t pick it up. I was lucky enough to chat with him about it. The crucial point—it needed cutting back, particularly the story should be about what happens and not how the characters got there.

I learned a few things along the way and I thought these may be useful to some of you.

I started writing Dragon Wine in 2004, originally as a short story. However, it didn’t work as a short story. No one seemed to get the point of it. However, I got lovely feedback about it. At this time, Varuna were running the HarperCollins MS development awards. I had about 25 000 words down so I sent them in. To my surprise I made the long list. I thought ‘wow’ this might be good. The next year the awards came again. I wrote a bit more and sent it in. I made the long list again. I recall telling Peter Bishop that Dragon Wine was written because of the encouragement I received from being long-listed.

I only wrote when the competition was looming. At that time, I was putting together the Australian Speculative Fiction: A genre overview, editing The Grinding House by Kaaron Warren and running an SF convention. I think, also, my relationship was rocky and I was working as well as growing grapes. I don’t seem to do things by halves.

The point of this reminiscing is to say that at the time I didn’t know why it was good. I didn’t know how to make it better. All I knew was that I had cracked something I’d been trying to crack for years. I went on to be short-listed in the Varuna MS Development awards, but not chosen. I also won a longlines fellowship and had 2 weeks at Varuna to work on my MS. In the weeks prior to that retreat, I wrote my car off, broke my thumb in the accident, broke my relationship (I didn’t see the other car but I had a long look at my life). I had been a second or two from being annihilated. However, despite the turmoil, I had a good two weeks and revised the MS. Back in the day, my author friends were writing door stopper fantasies so I was aiming for that length. Things have changed.

Now it is nearly 2012, and I know so much more about writing. The submissions reading for Angry Robot gave me great insights. Not looking at the MS for a well over a year, nearly two, also gave me a sense of distance and objectivity. The editing course as well. (there are some key commas missing in my ms). Another key factor is that publishers are looking for shorter books, particularly from first-time novelists.

So what did I learn?
There had to be a reason for what I was writing, a reason for the scene. World-building is not enough. I found I wrote scenes to give me a chance to showcase the world. When I asked the question what is happening here, how important is it? I found that it wasn’t necessary or could be covered elsewhere. Snip!

The bridging scenes showing how some characters went from here to there. Nothing really happens. Not what is promised in any case. Just some adventure, some character exploration and zip. Snip.

Verbose descriptions. I took way too long to say things. I came back through and could literally delete every second sentence, sometimes whole paragraphs. Snip!

Dialogue that was way too polite and detailed for an action scene where people were running for their lives. Snip. Rewritten to short, half-finished sentences in keeping with the scene.

Bad guy’s point of view shots, which had been written during a revision. Snip! Amazingly this didn’t affect the story line. (This is because I added them much later and the story already worked).

Way too much thinking and repetitive examination of issues by some characters. (They were annoying me). Snip!

At times, too much description of landscapes and items. Still kept some for flavour, but could see where it was too overdone.

That might seem like a small list, but you know it is a good list. One thing does concern me. The feedback I got at Varuna was that there was a lovely pace to the story. I’ve hacked that to bits now. I’m doing a read through, highlighting things to polish. The pace is different now. Faster, leaner.

I like the feel of it now. The story is still the same. I’ve tinkered with the plot slightly but for the better. I’m amazed at how much I took out and it is still the same story. I cut over 37 000 words from it.

The process took a lot longer than it should have. That’s life getting in the way. My hands are in bad shape from writing a report at work for a few months. I have swelling in my elbow and achy hands. I am only managing to write this blog before I go away on a writers’ retreat to New Zealand. I haven’t set myself goals on the retreat, because I don’t know if I can type day after day. I have a few more days while we tour NZ before starting the retreat to rest my hands. I’m hoping it will be enough.
Anyhow we’ll be blogging here fantasywritersonretreat.wordpress.com
Come along and catch up with our antics in Keri Keri. Participating are Kylie Seluka, Russell Kirkpatrick, Matthew Farrer, Nicole Murphy, Ian McHugh and Trudi Canavan (for a week), along with Paul who is not writing.

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I am pleased to present you with an interview with Russell B Farr, from Ticonderoga Publications, which has been in print since 1996. So Ticonderoga has published 25 titles, with a focus on SF, fantasy, horror, dark fantasy, paranormal romance, and related genres. With Ticonderoga Russell has published, single-author short story collections, multiple-author anthologies, The Year’s Best Australian Fantasy & Horror anthology series. Russell says he is currently looking for genre novels.
Ticonderoga Publications can be found here.

Why did you become an editor?

RF: It seemed like a good idea at the time. Seriously. I was fortunate to be hanging around with the Eidolon editors Jeremy G Byrne, Jonathan Strahan, and Richard Scriven. I saw the great work they were doing and how essential they were to the genre in Australia at the time. In the mid 1990s, Eidolon were the quality flagship for short genre fiction in Australia. This coincided with me finding myself bringing out Howard Waldrop as a convention guest. Jonathan suggested that I could do a chapbook as Howard had very little in print in Australia at the time. Out came Custer’s Last Jump, by Steven Utley and Waldrop, with a cover by the pre-Academy Award winning Shaun Tan.

Somewhere in the process of lugging boxes around I thought it was fun, so I asked Steven Utley if he’d be willing to let me do a collection of his work. Utley is a remarkable short fiction writer, a world-class master of the field, but sadly under-appreciated. I remember vividly writing at the top of a draft contents list: “Over 25 years of writing and it takes a 23 year-old punk in Australia to make his first collection”. I think it was much later that I told Steven how old I was when I approached him.

From there it kind of steamrolled, and I was able to publish the first collections by Simon Brown, Stephen Dedman and Sean Williams (Sean’s was his first full-length collection, having first been collected in a chapbook by Bill Congreve’s Mirrordanse in 1994).

I took a few years off from books at the start of the last decade, working at webzines, moving house about 30 times, doing other stuff. In 2005 I was invited to be a guest at the 2007 SwanCon, and felt a little embarrassed I hadn’t done enough to deserve this. Something snapped in my brain and I was soon talking to writers about an anthology project, and before I knew it I was on the phone asking Simon Brown for his collection of Iliad-themed stories, Troy.

Since then my wonderful, creative and especially tolerant partner Liz Grzyb has come on board and we’ve published a further 18 titles, including work by Terry Dowling, the late Sara Douglass, Kaaron Warren, Angela Slatter, Lucy Sussex, Lisa L Hannett, Justina Robson, Lewis Shiner, in addition to numerous anthologies and a Year’s Best Australian Fantasy & Horror anthology.

At the end of the day, editing for TP is still the full-time job I come home to after my daytime full-time job. This may change over the next 5 years, but has certainly been the case for the last 16.

What is the most important aspect of your editing role?

RF: Everything. I have control-freak, perfectionist tendencies, and so for me every stage of the process is important. It’s important to get the writers onside early and keep them onside, as a happy, satisfied writer is essential to the whole process, including in marketing. The book – the product, if you will – has to look good. I picked up early from the Eidolon crew that if indie press isn’t going to be able to compete with large press for price, it can and should be competitive when it comes to quality. Good covers, good paper stock, attention to detail with what goes on every page, you will rarely find a widow or an orphan in a Ticonderoga book (there are occasional pages that refuse to comply but these are well and truly the exception). The contents have to stack up, each story should be able to justify its inclusion. Talking to readers is important, finding out what they liked and didn’t like.

Which areas of editing to you find the most enjoyable?

I guess I’m happiest when I’m bringing the whole package together, when the cover art is falling into place, the look and feel of the book is coming together, the stories are almost finished, I’ve got a happy writer I can bounce ideas around with, I’ve got Liz looking over my shoulder spotting what I’ve missed, when I can see the virtual product in my mind. At this point the book never gets better, it’s my happy place.

At this point, I can usually reflect happily (or at least with a smile) everything that has led to now. I can bring together what I’ve discussed with both the writer and with Liz, so I have an idea of what we’re all looking for. I want to produce something that the writer will be at the very least pleased with, if not somewhat stunned at the realisation that their words and thoughts are materialising into a solid form.

Once this point is passed, reality drifts back in, and things like deadlines start to reappear. And the finished book rarely totally realises my ideal, though they are getting closer. Seeing a stack of books together is as close as it gets – and that stack represents work, boxes to shift, books to pack and post, stock to track, and so on.

In your view can editing be taught?

RF: I don’t know. I certainly believe that it is a learned skill, but from my experience it does require a certain predisposition to loving books and language. I think I’m not the best person to be teaching editing, as I find a lot of what I now do is more intuitive and I’m not always great at communication intuitions.

I certainly don’t believe that doing a course and getting a certificate at the end of it makes a person an editor. Much of the process involves learning on the job, learning from mistakes, developing as a person.

How do you define the editing role?

RF: I think as an editor/publisher at an indie press with a total staff of 2 part-timers, there isn’t the luxury of strictly defining roles. I’m not really strongly in favour of trying to do this – if a box of books needs taking to the post office they won’t move themselves. No job is below me and no job is above me.

I think even in a larger organisation, editors should take a wide view of their role, something like whatever needs to be done in order to get books out of writers’ heads and into the hands of readers.

What do you look for when employing an editor or working with an editor?

RF: I’m not the best at playing with others, so am yet to really find the ideal mix for someone to collaborate with as an equal on a project.

When I’m looking for editors to take on projects for TP, I’m looking for people I respect – to the point of being able to have a respectful heated discussion if necessary. I like to work with editors who have ideas, drive, enthusiasm and a good knowledge of the genre. I’m happy to work with someone who may not have a great deal of editing experience if they have a passion for and knowledge of the genre. I think I’m good at this as we’ve managed to bring on board some fantastic editors – Liz Grzyb, Talie Helene and Amanda Pillar.

What areas of editing do you find most challenging?

RF: I think the biggest challenge is growth. We started small, a couple of books in a big year, and records of almost everything could be kept in my head with the help of a couple of spreadsheets, a diary and a couple of napkins. Now I’m looking at whether to upgrade to specialist publishing accounting software to keep track of royalties on 8 titles per year, dealing with transactions in 3 currencies, or if our current systems are suitable. Finding the time to investigate these things takes time and focus.

At the same time I’m thinking if I should be buying books that won’t see print until 2014 (even with our 8/year schedule), balancing our titles across genres and formats, tracking review and other promo copies, getting books into the hands of the right advocates.

Growth also brings the challenge of making every writer know that we love and respect their work, the love to share does grow accordingly but I’d like to make sure that we continue this. No one writer is less special to us than any other when it comes to getting our books out and noticed, or when it comes to treating all writers in a respectful and professional manner. I hope we succeed at this.

What do you find rewarding about editing?

RF: Seeing a row of the same book, spines out. I think some books only become real at that stage, and I do put a lot of effort into our spines. Having a writer tell me that I’ve somehow contributed to their creative process, making their work better through my input. Having a reader tell me that they’ve enjoyed a TP book, or seeing someone recommend a TP book to one of their friends. Getting a cover design right. The little creative touches I’m able to add to books. The feeling I get from writers trusting me with their ideas and visions. Putting a book in the post is a wonderful grounding experience, knowing that at the other end is someone who has chosen to buy a book I’ve been involved in putting together (there are probably only a select few who buy a book because of my involvement – a handful who seem to trust my taste regardless of wherever it takes TP – but for all the others I just feel privileged to have been part of the process).

Books are a reward, ebooks included. Each book is a little package of a writer’s ideas, visions, thoughts and feelings, broadly or narrowly filtered through an editor, and then wrapped up in a form that should be pleasing to all interested parties. I’m involved in bringing incredible talent and creativity into the world. I like that.

Do you have any advice to aspiring editors?

RF: Love books. Love words.

For new entrants to the market, where is a good place to start in the editing field?

RF: I guess work out what you’re good at and what you want to do, and look for suitable roles accordingly. Don’t start an indie press, really, don’t. Cat Sparks is probably the only editor in Australia who started that way and now makes a living from working with books (as separate from writing), and she does that with 2 different editing jobs. There are a number of reasons why someone would want to start an indie press (wanting to dispose of an embarrassing fortune, certifiable insanity, a pathological love of books, a dislike of relaxing and doing nothing, the inability not to do it), but wanting to gain a foothold in the industry isn’t one of them.

I think the most important thing is the love of books and the desire to get books into the hands of readers. If you have that, then pursue this wherever it takes you.

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I’ve got loads of things to do and, of course, I can’t decide what to do first. I did a bit of my uni assignment and not as much as I should have. I am supposed to be drafting an outline for my Nanowrimo project. I’m not certain I can commit to it, but it never hurts to do an outline, I have discovered quite recently. I’ll do that tomorrow.

I had been talking to Nicole about Dragon Wine, lamenting that I had cut a bit but needed to cut more and didn’t think I could get another 20,000 out of it. Then we talked a bit more. I suggested I could cut the bad guy’s point of view. A couple of chapters I had written during revision were from the Inspector’s point of view, nasty stuff too. Nicole said she’d done a twitter survey suggesting that readers don’t like the bad guy’s point of view. I figured I could live without it, but I’ll have to do a bit of patching to make the ending sensible. I can’t all be interpreted from the action. Actually, writing the bad guy helped me flesh out a few things. Now I’ve done that I can get rid of it.

Then I revisited a scene, which I thought I’d cut back, only find heaps of things to cut back. I had way to much detail and the action was full of words that didn’t need to be there. I was quite surprised really. Not only could every second sentence could go but just about every second word, or at least it could be written tighter. So I played with that scene and began to worry that maybe I had quite a bit of work to do.

So the MS is now at 141,500 words. I have 11,500 words to do before I reach my goal. I’m beginning to think it is doable.

I used to think Dragon Wine was the best thing I’d ever written. Now I’m thinking this is the best thing I’ve ruined through overwriting. Well that is repairable.

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I am co-chairing the Australian National Science Fiction Convention in Canberra in 2013. I’m very excited about it and I wish it was all going to happen next week. Unfortunately there is a lot of organising to do between now and then. We have great guests, Nalo Hopkinson, Marc Gascoigne, Karen Miller, Kaaron Warren and Rose Mitchell is fan guest of honour.

The wordpress site is here

Currently we have cheap introductory memberships which end on 31 October and I’ve updated the venue information so members can start booking their rooms.

We are running three streams of programming, a steampunk themed high tea, a Regency gothic banquet, workshops, readings, mass book signing etc etc.

If you read this and you don’t know what a science fiction convention is, then please ask and I’m happy to explain. SF conventions should come with an addiction warning though.

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I’ve been quiet mostly because I’m busy at work and with the university assignments. After a bunch of personal stuff hitting me last Thursday I got word just before I went to bed that a novel manuscript had been rejected. Apparently my rejection went astray and I waited a year to query. I had a feeling this one wasn’t quite right for the imprint so I’m not surprised by the outcome.

It was pretty tough news though, coming as it did after a day of blow after blow of personal crap (not my personal crap but originating in those close to me). What it sparked off for me though was the assessment of where I was at. Here I am at this time of year and still I haven’t sold a novel and I know that it’s not going to happen anytime soon, particularly with Christmas round the corner. So I guess I really hate this part because it feels like I haven’t achieved anything.

This is my negative self speak talking and I really should own it. I do have this negative ear worm. If an editor says something nice, I tend not to believe it. Silly really when you use logic. If one asks for a manuscript, I think they are humoring me. If one says send me something else, I think he or she is just being nice.

My lovely partner, Matthew, and my good friend, Nicole Murphy, both gave me pep talks. Nicole told me to submit the novel to the Manuscript Monday so I did. Then if I didn’t hear back in the month then I am to submit it elsewhere, so I will.

I also sent out a few short stories and did an outline for another novel. I’m thinking about what to write for nanowrimo, although I think I’m going to find it hard to write given report writing at work and the massive proofread I have to do for the uni project.

However, I’m stating this here and now. I have achieved stuff this year. Maybe not the novel sale, but this year has been massive for me. I did the reading submissions thing and learned a lot and I’ve been doing this editing course, which has also been excellent. I’ve sold more short stories this year than I ever have. I also still have another MS under consideration out there.

And I’m going to write another novel on the writing retreat in January and I have some revisions and cutting back to do on Dragon Wine so I can send that out too.

I let these negative feelings interfere with things. I leave manuscripts in my hard drive for years and do nothing with them. I’m not going to sell anything leaving them in there.

Another thing, and this maybe useful to others, I continue to write new projects because they aren’t going to get published if they aren’t written. The more projects I write, the more chance I have of hitting the right editor with the right manuscript. Perhaps hitting isn’t the correct word to use here.

The upshot is I’m not giving up. I’m not listening to the self deflating, negative mind speak. I’m pushing forward.

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As you may know I’ve been studying editing this year, and I have some previous experience in editing, particularly when I had a small press. Also, recently I interviewed seven editors about the editing scene; what it all means; the role of editing, etc.

What this has brought home to me is that profession of editing encompasses a wide range of roles and tasks. From the curator type role, where the editor selects stories and compiles them into themed anthologies, at times garnering awards for the anthology as a result. There are acquisition editors, who read with the view to publishing works for a particular imprint, which requires an understanding of the ‘vibe’ of the publishing house. Sometimes in a small press the publisher performs this acquisitions role along with many others. There are copy editors, whose role is assist authors to get their manuscript into a publishable state, or more likely to finesse it to its final publishable state. There are proofreaders who specialise in honing the sentences and dotting the i’s and the t’s and making sure those commas and periods go where they belong. There are interns, who may do many tasks, such as read the submissions pile, do copy edits and other editing related tasks under supervision.

The interviews also touched on the question of whether editing can be taught. There was pretty much a consensus view that copy editing and proofreading can be taught. Whether a person has a flair or talent for editing in the sense of making a good work great, was not really resolved. I did touch on whether editors used creativity when editing in my questions to James Frenkel. He warned me off that view as editors work with work that is already created. I had asked this because I find when I’m critiquing and analysing and making substantive suggestions to a story or novel, I find that it erodes the creativity I have left for my own writing. James Frenkel said he did not think that was the case, because he knew many editors who did not write.

I have not quite made up my mind about editing. It is a very useful skill, particularly if you can use an objective eye on your own work as a writer. However, I do find that it competes with my writing some of the time. That may be fatigue rather than both editing and writing being drawn from the same well. I am not quite sold on whether I want to do it for a career or freelancing. Another thing against that is I get paid better than a salaried editor in my current job. Freelancing is a different thing, where it is possible to make a reasonable living, if done well. There is the potential that I could edit as a job at my work one day as well. Mind you audit reports are not that groovy or exciting as a novel or a short story. About 50 per cent of my job is report writing and editing, polishing, proofreading etc anyway.

To argue against myself, I find that when I go through the months of editing on my report in my day job, I am able to be critical of my own work. So during this period I am more likely to be editing at home as well as work, because my mind, after a few weeks, has been kicked into analysis mode and even detail mode.

The parts of editing I like best include choosing stories for anthologies. I haven’t done this for a while. I also like working on ideas and seeing them come to fruition. I did this with Johnny Phillips, Werewolf Detective collection by Robbie Matthews. I went over there and pitch the idea to him. I loved his stories and I’d read a couple of them. I thought they could be trimmed together in one volume and also made more accessible so that young adults could read them. I also, asked Robbie to make more stories for the collection. I think that worked rather well. We did get an award nomination out of it.

I think I have a reasonable eye when it comes to diagnosing what is wrong with a manuscript. The submission reading for Angry Robot certainly helped me there. I also found that with my major assignment this semester, which is a full on edit and production of a manuscript, that I could really exercise my mind with the structure and the copy editing to help make the manuscript sing. I think it has been an excellent partnership. (To own the truth, I am editing two projects, a novel and a novella).
To my mind, the work is the authors and it is up to them to decide if they will listen to my advice on an edit. Mind you, I am probably of a like mind to James Frenkel when it comes to using persuasion to get my own way.

As for my style, I am probably more of an interventionist that Alisa. I am using quite precise when saying what is wrong and why, when responding to a manuscript. I will even offer suggestions. It often depends on my relationship with the author. For example, when I edited Kaaron Warren for The Grinding House, we would often choose to disagree over commas. However, I also found that I could talk to Kaaron and she would address whatever the issue was we were discussing.

I do own that my proof reading skills are not the best. I mean I can do it, but I have to take my time, limit my distractions, focus. That is not easy for me and I don’t enjoy it. However, I hear that there are people out there that love proofreading. I don’t think I’m cut out for it. Though, I have been known to pick some errors up in my time.

My next challenge is the work on a glossary, a blurb, imprint pages and a commissioning letter to a designer for the manuscript. We aren’t going to print but we have to have it ready to go to print as part of the assessment. I have until early to mid-November to get that done.

To help me answer the question I posed in the title of this blog post, I must look at my satisfaction and enjoyment I have had from this semester and the major editing assignment. I have enjoyed it. It’s been challenging and tiring, but I have steamed on ahead as if it was all very easy. I think that confidence comes in part from the Angry Robot submission reading. I had so many things pounded in my head from reading so many submissions. I also think my previous experience has been useful too. First semester laid a good ground work for the second semester, particularly the focus on grammar, punctuation and the development of style guides. So I like editing. It is very useful and if I give up writing, I’d probably focus on editing. (I’m more likely to attack my ‘to read’ pile and read until my eyes fall out of my head.)

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I am very lucky again to have the very interesting and talented Cat Sparks here for an interview.

First a little about Cat.

Cat Sparks is fiction editor of Cosmos Magazine. She managed Agog! Press, an Australian independent press that produced ten anthologies of new speculative fiction from 2002-2008. She’s known for her award-winning editing, writing, graphic design and photography.

To see more about Cat check out here website here.

Cat has varied the format. Instead of answering the questions I sent, she has mashed them all together into…A  rant by Cat Sparks

Cat says: 

I didn’t originally set out to be an editor so much as a producer of anthologies with editing being a component of the product. I perceived there was a gap in the Australian SF marketplace so I decided to fill it with the sort of books I wanted to read myself.

In 2002, I unleashed Agog! Fantastic Fiction on the scene while being engaged in the process of acquiring a post-graduate certificate in editing and publishing from UTS. The course was a good one, covering marketing and writing as well as the nuts and bolts of editing and copy editing.

Eventually the burden of running a small press while trying to write my own material and hold down a day job became too much so I bailed. The short fiction landscape had blossomed in the meantime and the internet had made redundant the isolation previously experienced by many Australian writers.

I feel very fortunate to hold the fiction editor position at Cosmos magazine because it has enabled me to continue with the part of the process I enjoy most – sniffing out and shaping good stories – while others are responsible for layout, sales and distribution.

Fiction editing is performed in partnership with the author. The aim is to enhance the story without overpowering the author’s style. Some stories come to me like diamonds in the rough. Precision tooling is required to make them shine. Others are almost at publishable standard when I receive them, needing little more than suggestions, taps and tweaks to get them across the line. My job involves knowing when to intervene and when to leave well enough alone. I never try to leave my mark on an author’s work. Good editors are invisible menders. Our best efforts go unnoticed.

When I ran my own press I had more time for the shaping of rough diamonds. The Cosmos publication schedule does not allow for this so anything too unkempt and unruly gets passed over for works where the author has taken more care. There is no shortage of quality writing on offer. If an author can’t be bothered presenting a professional manuscript, I’m not prepared to run behind them with a dustpan and brush sweeping up errant adjectives and punctuation.

Most stories I reject have one thing in common. They’re boring. I’m bored before I’ve reached the end of the first page because the prose lacks style, rhythm, content and, quite frequently, all three.

We’re living in a society where the majority of citizens are literate. Possession of literacy is not enough in itself. If you’re calling yourself a writer you need more. Fiction writing is storytelling, not just telling. Anyone can tell me that a character went someplace and did stuff, what I’m looking for is the layer below the surface.

A story is more than the sum of its parts. The reader needs to walk away with more than they went in with, even if only for a moment. Even if the resonance doesn’t last. A slab of prose containing a protagonist, a beginning, middle and end is not necessarily, by default, telling a story.

If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, go and read the good stuff for yourself. When you pick up a page, read a couple of lines and want to know what’s going to happen next… that’s story. The bit about wanting to know.

Because remember, no one has to keep reading that page. They can easily flip to the next one, or put down the magazine. Other forms of entertainment like TV or music are more effortless to consume. Readers have all the power, most especially the power to move on to something else.

Apologies, Donna – I seem to have veered wildly off target and off topic. I better stop now before I start ranting on about all those submission faux pas editors despise most.

DH: That’s great Cat. Great to get another point of view. Thank you for taking the time to share.

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I am most fortunate to have the award-winning writer and editor, Jack Dann, provide an interview for the blog series on editing.

On his website it says:

JACK DANN is a multiple-award winning author who has written or edited over seventy-five books, including the international bestseller The Memory Cathedral, which was #1 on The Age Bestseller list, and The Silent, which Library Journal chose as one of their ‘Hot Picks’ and wrote: “This is narrative storytelling at its best… Most emphatically recommended.” Dann lives in Australia on a farm overlooking the sea and “commutes” back and forth to Los Angeles and New York. His website is here.

Of himself, Jack says: Well, I’m basically an anthologist when I’m not writing. Writing and editing are complimentary for me. One informs the other, and discovering writers who “have the juice” is a special joy. I’ve also worked as a consulting editor for a major New York publisher. I enjoy the interaction with other writers…especially as the time I spend writing is so solitary.

Why did you become an editor?

JD: The first book I ever sold was an anthology called /Wandering Stars/, which to my surprise, went on to be a classic, of sorts. I am primarily a writer, but editing has always /felt/ like writing: there is the enjoyable surprise, the unexpected twists and turns as the collection takes on its own particular shape…its own presence and character. Every story that has to go into a collection effects all the other stories; and, as always happens when I’m writing a novel, the work takes on a life of its own. That joy of writing as if the characters are whispering in my ear never goes away. Neither does that /frisson/ of reading a brilliant story that you know has to be part of the volume because the anthology would be something completely different without it. I guess, in my roundabout way, I’m saying that’s why I continue to edit, just as I continue to write: to discover what strange and beautiful country lies beyond the next hill.

What is the most important aspect of your editing role?

JD: I think it’s difficult to say what the most important role is. First of all, you need to have marketing skills, as you have to sell the anthology to a publisher–well, perhaps that’s old school as all the parameters are shifting with the take-up of e-publishing. I will refer to original anthologies throughout this interview. To compile a reprint anthology, the editor needs to be well read in the genre, have access to the stories, and have a theme for the collection. The stories are already written and published; the anthologist need only choose those stories that are to his taste and meet his requirements; then ascertain whom to send contracts to. But an original anthology involves getting the word out to the writers the editor would like to contribute. He must decide whether he is going to ‘open’ submissions to all and sundry and put himself into that particular Purgatory known as ‘having to get through the slush pile’. I usually commission stories from writers I’d like to see in the book. The word usually gets out in the professional circles, and that’s often the way I discover brilliant new work from new writers. As I’m a hands-on editor, I often work closely with writers on revisions. The idea is to help make the story as strong and focused as possible. But I am always cognizant that it is the writer’s story, not mine. He has to be happy with any revisions I might suggest. Better to sell your story to another market than be unhappy with a story that is published and has your name on it. So, in other words, I don’t believe an editor should ‘piss in the soup’. The editor must add value and always keep in mind that it is the author’s work and not his own. There, that’s about twelve times more than you asked for!

Which areas of editing to you find the most enjoyable?

JD: Working with the authors, seeing the stories that surprise and delight come over the transom, and watching the volume come to life with the addition of every new story.

In your view can editing be taught?

JD: Yes, absolutely, just as I believe writing can be taught. Both writing and editing are crafts. Craft can be taught. What can’t be taught is art. If the writer or editor has the right stuff, he may produce art. But any intelligent person can learn the bones of writing or editing.

How do you define the editing role?

JD: It really depends on the situation–whether an editor just facilitates with creative input or, as in book publishing, also acts like an agent steering the book through the various marketing and editorial departments in the company. I think I’ll leave it at that, and let others speak to the question.

What do you look for when employing an editor or working with an editor?

JD: A writer/editor relationship is very special. I’ve been very lucky in my career as a writer, as I’ve had brilliant editors who have understood what I was trying to achieve. They could see with more objective eyes than I could. But an editor who doesn’t have sympathy for the work can do it great harm.

What areas of editing do you find most challenging?
JD:  When I’ve worked as a book editor, I concentrate on conceptual editing–helping the author (if necessary) with the architecture of the story itself. I don’t do much copy editing, as there are plenty of people who can do expert line-by-line editing.

Do you have any advice to aspiring editors?

JD: Yes, read widely, remember that you’re there to facilitate the writer (and, yes, of course, to reject work that doesn’t make the grade), but you’re not the writer. All decisions must be based on the visceral understanding that it’s his work, not yours.

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I am very pleased to bring you the point of view of one of Australian’s fantastic small press editors. Small press editors and publishers usually have other full time jobs as well as operating a press. Also, the tend to do everything involved with publishing, unless they have help from partners, relatives, interns and friends who cannot escape fast enough. In my opinion, they do it more for love than the money. I thank Keith Stevenson for his time in answering the editing questions.
Keith Stevenson is the publisher with award-winning Australian independent press coeur de lion publishing (www.coeurdelion.com.au). Here  Keith edited Aurealis Magazine, Australia’s longest running science fiction and fantasy magazine, from 2001 to 2004. He’s been a convenvor and judge in the Aurealis awards more times than even he remembers. He was also the producer and presenter of the Terra Incognita Speculative Fiction podcast (www.tisf.com.au),  featuring the best Australian speculative fiction read by the authors who created it. He lives in Wollongong, where all the coolest Australian spec fic editors live.  He edits speculative fiction and nothing else.

Why did you become an editor?
KS: I really got into grammar when I was doing the professional writing and editing course at TAFE. The grammar class ran for the whole year and the guy who taught it was this huge white ex-pro basketball player who had a really dry wit and actually made grammar intriguing and fun. As a writer I understood the importance of self-editing to make your work as presentable as possible for publication. Then I got involved in slush pile reading for Aurealis Magazine and when the editing gig came up I jumped at it.

What is the most important aspect of your editing role?
KS: Helping the author to make their work sing – and pointing out the obvious errors in the work which the author can’t see because they’re too close.

Which areas of editing to you find the most enjoyable?
KS: The structural edit phase because your partnering with the author in the creative process. My best experiences have been when I and the author have just been sparking ideas off each other both working to make the story better.

 In your view can editing be taught?
KS: The nuts and bolts of editing can be taught, for sure. But I think there’s a talent in seeing beneath the story to the underlying structure and dramatic thrust and being able to suggest improvements that bring that into sharper focus.

 How do you define the editing role?
KS: Well there’s the structural author partnering element I talked about before. Then there’s the fact checking and typo fixing that come during copyedit and final proofing to make sure no errors have been introduced during the final layout.

What do you look for when employing an editor or working with an editor?

KS: Working in genre it’s important that there is a degree of familiarity with the subject matter, the tropes etc. It’s also good to feel that the editor is interested in your work, can see the potential and can also – politely but candidly – point out its faults.

What areas of editing do you find most challenging?

• ·         project management,
• ·         copy editing,
• ·         proofing, promotion,
• ·         marketing,
• ·         dealing with authors,
• ·         dealing with acquisitions?

KS:  As a one man show I don’t have much trouble with any of those, except marketing. It’s hard to get the message out there strongly enough to cut through.

What do you find rewarding about editing?
KS: Making good fiction.

Do you have any advice to aspiring editors?
KS: Read lots and don’t think you know it all. And remember, the work belongs to the author. It’s not yours to do with as you will.

 For new entrants to the market, where is a good place to start in the editing field?
KS: Volunteering for magazines or journals is great.

And while we are at it, we should plug Keith’s latest anthology, Anywhere But Here. After three attempts I managed to get a story in there.

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As a continuation of this series of blog interviews with editors, I am happy to introduce Lee Harris, who is an editor with Angry Robot. He edits novels, exclusively. In previous roles, he has edited  short fiction and also headed up Hub Magazine. Angry Robot Books can be found here.

I am very grateful that Lee (and Ellen) could spare the time to answer these questions for this blog. More interviews will be going up over the next week or so.

Why did you become an editor?

LH: I started off editing short fiction when I founded the (then print) magazine, Hub, as I was fascinated by the editorial process, and always hoped I’d be good at it. When Hub became electronic-only, and weekly, I was invited to apply for an editorial role with Angry Robot – this was some 9 months or so before we launched. Gradually my editorial duties with Hub decreased as Angry Robot launched and grew.

I couldn’t possibly hope to add much to Ellen Datlow’s article on editing short fiction – she’s one of the best short fiction editors we’ve ever had – so I’ll focus my answers on novels.

What is the most important aspect of your editing role?

LH: Finding and nurturing new talent, and helping my authors to make their manuscripts the best they can be. Editors are ideally placed to see the whole shape of a novel, and to advise an author, accordingly.

Which areas of editing to you find the most enjoyable?

LH: Every stage holds something to keep my interest and enthusiasm. I particularly enjoy finishing the novel for the first time, and letting its shape sink in, working out which sections need particular attention, and devising some suggestions for the author.

In your view can editing be taught?

LH: A difficult one, this. I agree with Ellen Datlow to a large extent, when she says it can’t be taught, but I’d qualify that. I think it can be taught, if the student already knows how to do it. It’s a largely intuitive process, that is self-taught over many years (usually without conscious effort) through the process of reading. A lot. It’s self-taught through osmosis. A course can’t teach this – only time and dedication to the written word can – but a course can help highlight the things you already know, but perhaps didn’t realize that you already know. A course can be a great source of confirmation in the editor’s ability. I doubt that many publishers would be swayed by a candidate who attended an editorial course, but if that course serves to provide the would-be editor with an increased confidence, then it’s served a purpose.

Copyediting and proofreading can be taught, of course, though even here, an editorial eye to style is needed. There is absolutely nothing wrong with an author breaking the rules of grammar and punctuation, but they should know the rules before they break them. Similarly, a copyeditor should know how to spot the difference between a mistake and a stylistic choice.

How do you define the editing role?

LH: The editing role as opposed to process? The editing role encompasses more than just the editing of the work (the process). An editor’s is to find (or commission) the books they want, to champion the work internally (to sales and marketing) and externally (alongside sales and marketing), and to ease the work along each stage of publication, working with artists, designers, copyeditors (which my word processor has just auto-corrected to “coy editors” – they’re usually not!), proofreaders, typesetters, marketers and, of course, the author.

Mechanics of editing

LH: Editors work in different ways, but toward the same goal – to help the author find a way to make the manuscript as good as it can be. I’ll cover the structural edit, here. At this stage the editor looks at the shape of the novel, and might conclude that – for instance – too many characters are introduced too soon, or the fountain scene in chapter seventeen would make more of an impact if it were moved to chapter four, or that the protagonist performs an action out of character in order to service the plot, or that character X is less well-defined than she could be. The editor should never meddle, though, but merely make suggestions for the author to improve their already-excellent-if-not-quite-ready work. The editor suggests ways to improve the shape, but the authors is always the one with their hands on the clay.

What areas of editing do you find most challenging?

LH: Time management is the big challenge for me. I naturally find it more rewarding to focus my efforts on the shiny thing in the corner – to work on the parts of the job that I particularly  enjoy. It’s easy to conveniently forget to update the database with revised page counts, or to rewrite a book blurb for the twelfth time because a particular business partner needs it in a specific format. I find electronic To-Do lists a great tool to help me manage my time, and to tell me what I must be doing when instead I’m doing what I feel like doing.

Do you have any advice to aspiring editors?

LH: Make your own luck. Determine your strengths (it will take time). Join a local writers group and offer to critique and make suggestions on their manuscripts. Volunteer with an online fiction group. Organise your own group (online, in a quiet pub, at someone’s home). Make your own luck.

Thanks Lee for these insights. I really must get into that electronic To-Do lists!

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